What is love? It looks like a simple question...yet, is it really?

How does one know what love is, when one hasn't ever felt it? Is it a true emotion, or a made up word to describe that euphoria that comes with lust?

Love dies, so therefore, does it live? If it does live, where is it born? Is it born out of the before mentioned lust? Lust is nothing more than a chemistry that happens between two people...it isn't an emotion.

Lust can turn into many different things...mostly the chemistry burns out and you have nothing left but it's ashes. This "love" also turns into many different things. Compatability, a "comfort zone", resentment, anger, hurt, hate, indifference.

What is the purpose of this "emotion"? You do not need it to breath, eat, drink, or survive. One can very easily go to bed every night and wake up every morning and function quite well without ever having "been in love".

So, what is it? Why do people try all of their lives to find it, only to either never find it...or to lose it?

Ahhh my friend, you have obviously never REALLY been in love before. A human being without love can waste away and die. Love can not only last a lifetime, but many lifetimes...love can be reborn over and over between the same two beings. Don't make such ambiguous assumptions...

...keep searching

You can exist without Love
You can survive on your own
But if you want to rise above
You cannot do it alone,
To truly live, you must Love

Love is a sense of belonging, it takes on many different forms. The concern of a friend, the touch of a lover, the hopes for children (both living and those yet unborn) When two people are in Love, it goes beyond mere lust for each other's bodies. They want to be with each other, and they want experience life with each other. If one of them sees a beautiful sunset, they think of the other one and wish that they were watching it together. As I said in the short verse above, you can exist with out it, but to truly live, you've have to love.

Never give up on Love, Though you can not measure it, or even prove it, it is there. You will probably never find it if you go in search of it, but if you just accept that it is possible, Love will find you.

...Love won't come near me
She don't even hear me
Walks by my vacancy sign
Love needs a heart
And I need to find
Where love beats a heart like mine...

Just be sure that when love comes to your gate
That it finds you at home and in wait
For if it comes calling while seeking it you rome
It may not be still be there when you get home

What is the meaning of Life?

To me its Love.

If you are in love with someone who truly loves
you back, it can bring the greatest happiness.

But Love can also hurt.

Luther

http://mydiary.fateback.com

Life is what you put into it
Love is the enjoyment of life

Life is growing, learning, experiencing
Love is unselfishly sharing your knowledge and experiences with others

Life is a journey
Love is the destination

Life is art
Love is a masterpiece

Life is a portal
Love is an ocean

Live life
Love love, love thyself, then love others

Live life honestly
Love openly to others

Life from loves hurts grows one stronger emotionly
Love after hurt is stronger than the love that hurts

Live life
Love love, love thyself, love others, love honestly and openly.

Stands in wonderment at the beauty of the message just written. Well said, Guest, and thank you for sharing that with us.

That is beautiful Guest...that's how it should be.

Thank you, thank you...

Pinky! The Philospher

addendum...

Life is reality
Love is illusion

Live to learn, to know love
Love to experience love


Pinky!

Love is not something that I have had much experience with. In fact, I have no idea what it means to love someone, and to be loved in return. I know what it is to love your children, and receive their love. I love animals. :) (I don't think that's the same thing.)

I have had a small glimpse of what it could be like. To have someone, that ONE someone who is there. Wanting to be with you, to talk to you, to listen to you....to care about you. From that small glimpse, I saw forever. I cannot describe how it felt, I'm not poetic, but "wonderful" isn't even the tip of the iceburg. Life takes on a new meaning, everything matters, and it's warm. Not cold, hard, and bitter.

Love does not turn into indifference if it is real. Yes, love lives...it takes two people to want it, nurture it, help it to GROW and become strong. With the right person, and that nurtured, strong, deep love....everything is possible. I think that some people are meant to have that in their lives, some people are not. Why? I don't know...trying to find it instead of letting it happen on it's own? Maybe.

If it is meant to be, it will be. If it isn't, you can't make it happen...but when/if it does happen, grab ahold with both hands. Don't let go, it is more precious and valuable than anything else you could ever have. I just hope that one day, I'll have more than a small glimpse. ;)

Family, there is no more important feeling than Family

Love for love, no matter how deep is a vessel on vast ocean seeking dry land, or drowning in its vastness. "Love is Blind" metaphor.

Two people deeply in love are still two lonely soles seeking a greater purpose unless they feel themselves as a family. They may feel themselves deeply in love, but inside they each are deeply sad, with no other purpose than just to be in love with each other. This is a selfish love, or obsessive love. Often this love ends tragically.
Two people drowning or smothering in love and unable to unwilling to let the other leave, or grow.

Love for love or sake of love is an illusion. Learn to recognize it and avoid it.

To find true love, find yourself, find your purpose. Seek family, seek in others what you would seek in family. Only then do you find real love. Family is comfort. Family is the only real love. Mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters are family. Pets are family. Close friends too.

Seek out family, find your purpose then love will find you. Seek the familiar, familiar is family. Family is love. Love with out family is an empty vessel

um....pardon me, Guest. That depends on the type of family you have. Believe me, not all families have love inside of them.

Just an observation, I agree with your meaning...but remember the saying, "You can't choose your family." That's the God's honest truth.

If I understand the guest correctly, he's not refering to one's natural family, but one created by those of our chosing who meet our needs. Two people in love are still two people unless they consider themselves a couple.

Love happens.

Going out looking for love may be like looking for the Holy Grail.
Going out and meeting different people in different environments without the expectation of love may enable love to happen.
When you find it, you may find that it's not what you thought it would be. It's a feeling, so it can't be described (or expected) properly in advance.


(Your mileage may vary)

The Late Great Robert A. Heinlein said "love is the condition that someone elses happiness is vital to your own"
I can live with that thought.

I can grok that!

Pinky!

Clarification For Libby...

Family are those people whom we feel most comfortable being with. If a person has no one with which they feel comfortable being with, then that person's quest is to "Seek out family", that is find new friends, join clubs or events, find new hobbies or explore old interests, and find those new friends. Then you have a family.

The phrase was "We can not choose our parents", but we all do seek and can choose our own family of friends even if they be pets, or on internet chat sites.

Pinky!

Thank you (Pinky?)!
I too have been known to distguish 'tween blood and family!
The really weird thing is when you discover that sometimes your best friend is your closest blood!

If its not love, then why is there an empty place in my heart when she's away from me? Why when I hear a song on the radio that we heard together do I see her beautiful green eyes, her lovely smile and let out a deep sigh? Why do I worry when I can't get her on the phone? Why do I care so much about her if its not love? Why when I am troubled, do I seek to tell her that which I could tell no one else? Why when the phone rings, does my pulse begin to race and turn into the giddy joy that brings on little giggles just before I pick it up anticipating hearing her voice that sounds like a happy brook over round stones down a mountain side? Why, when I consider the prospect of spending my life without her, do I feel as though I'm suspended over a bottomless chasm about to fall in? What has this to do with lust? Answer these questions and then tell me that love dies. You may begin to understand, if you are lucky enough, to find that love does not always die, and can survive the same souls through many lifetimes. For me, there is only the love of my sweet princess and anything before that I thought was love, was merely a passing flicker compared to the feelings I have for my beloved.

It ain't science...

But to some people, it's impossible.

Why is it impossible?

All they need is to add a space and a ' and suddenly impossible transforms into: "I'm Possible!"

There is nobody on this planet that is not capable of giving and receiving love. The more you give, the more you get in return. Maybe not always from where you expect, but it always comes back to you. (Remember the promise in the threefold law)

I ONCE WROTE..............
"Mis-Perceptions"
Dreams and Love, Friendship & Inspiration.
These are complete lies for people of Desperation!
Honestly folks, just think back.
Are things ever what they're supposed to be?
Dreams shattered, Love Lost or never realized.
Friendships betrayed or Inspirations fade.
If someone were to Dream then they tease death.
If someone were to dare Love they betray themselves.
Realize your Love before you are betrayed.
Realize your Dreams before they kill you.
For I have been tortured a 1000 times only to
come to these conclusions.
For True Love never dies it consumes you.
Happily or Hellishly the consumption complete.
And I dream and die daily.
*
Although I don't believe that perspective entirely
anymore, it does say something about what LoneSomeLoser is experiencing. I now believe
that love just like life happens point blank.
Never knowing if you'll be happy or not. It's not the emotion that is important but what you do with the experience of the emotion. Whether we all understand it or not, EVERYTHING happens for a reason. Make the most positive force out of all of lifes experiences and you'll grow far beyond your comprehension! Just thought I'd throw my own two cents in..........

I know what it is to love so deeply that full conversations need no words. I know the depth of another spirit. My heart sings notes of deafening clarity. He is gone and I still feel with him. When he left, so did my love. It strikes me insane with grief. I have no soul. He took it with him and scrubs his dirty bathroom floor with it and hangs it on spikes. Don't assume one is lucky to have loved and lost. Try living with it. *sigh* But, if you love, cling with all of your might. It is more than precious. It will live longer than your body will tolerate.

I have liked, lusted, loved. I have disliked, been revolted, and hated (not nice, but probably accurate in the school years).

These are emotions. To ask 'What is Love?' is to ask for a generic definition of a human emotion. I am not sure that is possible. We all react differently to each situation or person and we each have a genetic, pre-programmed set of responses that are updated with our worldly experience (hence the feeling of 'hate' when younger - before learning that 'hate' is a waste of energy and counter productive for ourselves and for any given situation). That's what makes us individual.

The love of a God, a pet, a friend, a lover, a neighbour, a colleague, a spouse or a child - each is very different, though not less real. Each changes daily, as the individuals change daily.

I would think 'trust' and 'faith' would be the crucial bits in any relationship. Without those there is nothing to work with. (Considers the situation of children, and perhaps the trust idea flys out the window!! *L* .. one MUST be sensible here.)

Romantic love? Well, the belief there is 'one true love for each of us' would have to be the biggest Greeting Card spam! *L* I am sure God, Earth Mother, Buddha or plain fate, has more to do than make sure we are born in a time/place that will ensure we meet/love that special one!! We can each love everyone we meet. It helps if they choose to love us back. Think of the internet as an example - daily we meet and share words, feelings and funnies with people we have never, and probably will never, meet. They are real to us; we like them; we develop relationships with them. Yet, I wonder how many of those friendships would have sparked if we met face to face at the pub or in the elevator?? Trust and choice. (passing thought - how many of those friendships would each of us taken the time to MAKE off the net? Do 'we' take the time to engage the colleague in the elevator that we do in Tir?) Yet it does not make the feeling any less real.

Just my thoughts .............

Go out there and love!!

Oh, by the way Goddess, in my opinion, having conversations without words is imagining what YOU want the other person to be saying and they (usually the bloke) wondering 'what on earth is going through that persons mind'. *L* If they are quick off the mark and know you quite well, they can respond quick enough to make it look good *smile*. I am not cynical, just honest.

Goddess, if you have felt that kind of Love, you are truly blessed, because you have experienced that which few people ever will. Most people can not even allow themselves to believe that it exists, because to do so would be to admit that they have never experienced it, for themselves.

Goddess, if you have ever felt that kind of Love, you are truly cursed, because no lesser version of Love will ever satisfy your heart. It is possible, that there may be another out there whom you can Love and be Loved by in that manner, so don't give up hope.

Ah, Lacie, you poor thing. You remind me of a girl whose clock ticked out before she decided to have a little spawn of her own. She scoffed at another's feelings who had a family she broke. Then, she faced the horrible reality of her own coldness after her menopause. Reality is you get what you give. The balance is always there. Try to be open to the fact that anything is possible. Just because you haven't seen it, doesn't mean it is not there.

Daryl, I have since married another. While it isn't as intense a love as I had, it is still pretty nice. My hubby and I have such a playful relationship. We are very romantic. Passion? *pfft* Nothing is there. But, not everything is wine and roses. We are in marriage counselling. He cannot trust in me because he knows I still love my ex. But, is that really a bad thing? I was honest with him when he asked. It proves I am no phony. Plus, it would be terribly unhealthy to go from perfect love to perfect hate.

Love and be loved. Hate and you have nothing. Love is the only god I worship.

lacie can defend herself goddess but I think it is unfair to attack her comments which are only a response to your posting.
all emotions are personal and it is dificult to compare experiences. e.g. 2 people can be blind but the one blind from birth has a different experience than one who goes blind at say 30.
How would each explain the concept of sight to an alien?

Well time to add my two cents worth.....

Learn to love yourself first *S*

:) Ludd, how very sweet you are. You defend one who was not under attack, by any means.

Always look on the bright side of life... *whistles*

agree w sorcha

And Goddess... you're credentials... would be, WHAT EXACTLY?????


Babe, you kinda have to EARN a place here to talk to the Veterans in such a *ahem* MEOW .... catty tone..........

next?

*yawn*

Oh, did I need to sign off on that last post?


HUuuuLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOO


*whispers..... you GO Aussie Woman*

No disrespect intended, but if one is still in love with the last, is it fair to marry the next? Somehow "pretty nice" would seem inadequate when it comes to love, esp from someone who has tasted true passion...why settle for "nice"? I agree with Lacie that there is no one soulmate. There are probably thousands, millions...but the timing must be right. The other person must love you back, and be capable of and ready for unconditional love. But the odds are not really as bad as all that...so don't settle. Too often you'll just settle into apathy or divorce...go out and seek real love, it's out there, somewhere.
Just another 2 cents thrown in...*s* (This is a new guest, not any of the previous ones, btw)

Can't we all just get along? Jaysus, a forum on love breaking down into, well, into...this

My thoughts exactly, Mac.

Sorry to have offended...only meant to encourage seeking true love. Did not mean to personally attack anyone here, I do apologize.

I LOVE EVERYBODY.....today!

Love does not come without discussion, disagreement, some pain, and the odd argument or twenty ..... five thousand *L*

No one can tell another what love is ...

To answer the self proclaimed Goddess - you judge me harshly and wrongly. I am not a post menopausal barren 'wish I had done that' person. (though there ARE some things I wish I had done earlier *wink*)

My main reply was in response to the original question and resulting discussion. My aside, in response to your post, Goddess, was merely that ....... an aside.

Take Sorcha's advise, huh?

Goddess, if it is true love than it can never die. You must accept that it can no longer continue to grow and as such will inevitably fade but a wee bit will always live.
Of course you can still love another, NO??
*
"Love The One You're With"
Mr. Stephen Stills

Daryl, What do you mean that love doesn't always come back from where you expect? Does that mean if one doesn't get it from their spouse they get it from another?

Goddess, I commend you and your husband for getting counseling. Too many in this society think that marriage is disposable. I think the "Soul Mate" theory is lacking. You get out of a relationship what you put into it. Marriage and love isn't easy. It takes time and energy to keep it alive.

To the guest, what are you suggesting? That if one doesn't feel passion at the present moment that one should abandon their relationship and go in search of their "soul mate" or "true love". Nothing is perfect in relationships or life for that matter. But one should not give up on one's marriage in search of a mere fantasy life.

Guest,
What I am referring to is that a good deed done by someone, may go completely unnoticed, by the person it is done for, but the doing of that good deed, will be rewarded, even if it is not where you expect it. for instance: A man who is out of work, finds a dollar on the side of the road. He happily picks it up and goes on about his day. While standing in-line to pay for his lunch, he overhears that the man in front of him is exactly one dollar short of being able to pay for his lunch. The first man turns over the dollar, and the second man give a hurried thanks, and departs. Later that same day, the finder and giver of the dollar, gets a job offer.

The job offer quite possibly came because the man was willing to part with a dollar that he needed, but not as badly as someone else did.

The same idea holds true regardless of whether you are referring to a dollar, friendship or anything else.

Daryl, I don't get what that has to do regarding marriage. Does that also mean that if one is in a marriage and leaves in search of the fantasy of "a soul mate" and "passion" that he will get three folds of evil back in his direction. You mentioned the three-fold law above and I find that law works both ways in terms of good and evil.

That is funny about the dollar example. Wish someone would tell that to my ex-husband. Me and our 4 children could use the dollar more than he could. I find this soul mate stuff to be lacking just as the guest states. When two people marry they are in love and believe themselves to be marrying the right person. What sane person would marry someone that they thought wasn't right for them?

I also believe that any marriage can and should be saved. I think if you were in love once that two people willing to work on it can save it. Which would show wisdom when children are involved. However, in my case, my husband walked out on me and our 4 children. Which is sad. However, two years later me and the 4 children are still proving to be fine without him. I think to walk out shows that you really never loved the person in the first place, so that is why my marriage couldn't be saved. What is sad also, is when some people dedicate more time and energy to the internet than to their spouse. So, spend some time e-mailing your spouses. It could save your marriage. Mine frequented messages boards every day almost, which is more time than he wanted to spend with me and the 4 children.

As for Goddess, a playful and romantic marriage sounds great to me. So, keep working on it. As long as you both are willing you can make it.

To the other guest, once you are married you are not suppose to keep searching and waiting to find a soul mate or someone else to understand you and love you. When you get married you have chosen and marriage is suppose to be for life.

I am the one doing the walking. What is wrong with wanting to find your "soul mate". Especially if the person you married told you on your wedding night that the only thing you are good for is to clean his house, cook his meals, and to give him children? What is wrong with wanting a "fantasy" life, if that fantasy life involves a husband that cares for you, loves you, treats you with the respect you deserve..not because you are his wife, but because you are a human being.

Not ALL marriages can be saved. When there is only one person willing to be married, and the other one is willing to tell you that every problem he's ever had is YOUR fault, it's not a marriage. Vows were taken in good faith on my part, but were not kept on his part. There have been nights that I've stayed awake praying that he would come home to me, because he was my husband and that meant that I "should" love him. How many of those nights do you think he came home? I didn't care about that, he convinced me that I didn't deserve to have him home all the time. I was a disappointment. I cleaned his house...(which I paid for), I had his children...(that he doesn't even know), I cooked his meals...(that he through in the garbage), but I wasn't the one that was deserving.

My children and I are deserving, we deserve to be happy, we deserve to be able to come home and be happy we are there...and not be so totally stressed out at the prospect that he MAY come home tonight that we are biting each others heads off. My children deserve to be happy children. They should be able to have friends come over, and to play outside, and to laugh. He doesn't allow any of this. When he's home, we are to sit quietly on the couch and watch him flip through the TV channels as if it's some sort of Olympic sport. We aren't allowed to speak, we aren't allowed to get up, my children aren't even "allowed" to go into the kitchen to get a drink of water. If we dare, we pay the price.

I paid it, alright. For 12 years I paid the price for being in "love". I was 18 years old, and it took until NOW for me to see that I don't "deserve" this. It took me 12 years to figure out that when he came home drunk and hit me, I didn't "make" him do it. It took me until NOW to see that I'm stronger than he ever could or would be.

I also figured out this...I still believe in that "fantasy". I still believe that there is a "soul mate" out there for me. Someone out there who is right for me, and I believe that it is my right to be free to find him. I made a mistake when I was 18 years old, and it's not a mistake that I have to live with, just because "marriage" should mean forever. "Marriage" is a word...unless there is mutual love, respect, trust, and caring. That is what two people should fight for.

No, marriage isn't easy, love isn't easy, and life isn't easy...but it doesn't have to be hell, either. Aspen, I'm sorry that your husband walked out on you and your children. Your situation may have been totally different than mine is, but take my word for it...I'm not the only one in my situation, and not ALL marriages can or should be fixed.


P.S. I apologize if this message seems harsh, bitter, and angry. *shrugs shoulders* When a person, man or woman, has had enough, they've had enough.

correction, please...he never through the dinner in the garbage, he THREW it in the garbage. *blushing*

*by God's good grace, I have also kept a since of humor, if not the good since to keep a dictionary*

Libby, If this guy already told you this on your wedding night, then you knew how he was all along. The situation I am referring to is totally different. I said that marriages in which two people married each other cause they loved each other. Why you chose that kind of guy and then after he informed you of your worth on your wedding night and which he probably informed you of when you were dating I have no idea. That wasn't a marriage. You are talking about physical abuse. I am not. I am talking about a marriage where two people could always count on the other to be there regardless. I also said a marriage where two people were both willing to work to save the marriage. However, the two people have to have a conscience and know that they were wrong and make every effort to right the wrong.

I think that it would behoove all of us to remember, that there are no silver bullets, and there are no two situations that are the same. What any one person can bear, may not be what another can bear. I could not bring myself to condone nor condemn another based solely upon my own experiences. If you have given love, and given all that you can give, and have not received anything in return, perhaps you may be at a point where it is time to move on.

To the guest who questioned me, if you go back and read my comments, I nor any of the immediately previous posters to my original comment, you spoke of had mentioned marriage. Although marriage should be based on Love, sometimes they are not, even though we may not realize this for a time. eventually it becomes obvious. at that point we have to choose what is the best course of action to take. Sometimes that might be to stay together, and work things out, and sometimes that might be to go your seperate ways. Each situation is unique unto itself, and I nor anyone else is qualified to judge what someone in that situaltion should do (except the person in the situation)

I purposely tried to avoid being dragged into the branch this discussion has taken into marriage. I hope we can bring it back to the very deep and philosophical questions posed at the beginning of the conversation. (and I quote)
"What is love? It looks like a simple question...yet, is it really?

How does one know what love is, when one hasn't ever felt it? Is it a true emotion, or a made up word to describe that euphoria that comes with lust?

Love dies, so therefore, does it live? If it does live, where is it born? Is it born out of the before mentioned lust? Lust is nothing more than a chemistry that happens between two people...it isn't an emotion..."

(BTW would our many guests, name themselves, or come up with a temporary name, so that the rest of us can keep up with you, please?)

Daryl, I don't get what that has to do regarding marriage. Does that also mean that if one is in a marriage and leaves in search of the fantasy of "a soul mate" and "passion" that he will get three folds of evil back in his direction. You mentioned the three-fold law above and I find that law works both ways in terms of good and evil.
I ask again cause it was mentioned about settling in apathy or divorcing. True love never dies. So, you are saying that one just wakes up one day and realizes one isn't in love? That is stupid. That isn't love at all. That is one that just decides that one wants out. If we all left every time we felt like it we would all have been married or in relationships with everyone. Like one big soap opera. If your opinion is to leave every time you feel lack of love, then for your sake and the woman's I hope you don't ever marry. If you are married, then I feel truly sorry for your wife and children if you have any, cause children suffer greatly from someone with your shallowness.

love- that emotion that we feel toward something we value. value- to act or move to gain or keep. libby- wtg. daryl- hey.

Guest,
My point was not about marriage, it was not intended to be about marriage. If someone is in a marriage and they feel that they have been abused or neglected, mentally physically or emotionally, by their partner, they should let the partner know. If the partner does nothing to change her or his ways, then the abused party must decide, whether to continue putting up with it, or to leave.
If there are children involved, they are harmed mentally and emotionally by being raised by two parents who constantly fight with each other. You might tell yourself you are staying for the children, but what you are doing for them, is destroying them.
If you think that deciding that moving on for the good of all parties involved is shallow, then you need to re-examine your views. Ask any Child Psychologist, and they will tell you that what I am saying is true. The alternative is a hard road, but sometimes it is the only road that will bring balance to the lives of the marriage partners and their children.
The best thing to do, is if you are single, make certain any person you consider marrying is a person whom you are truly in love with, and that you can accept all of their worst flaws and shortcomings. Also remember, you do not just marry a person, you marry into a family, so be certain, that you can accept the family you would be marrying into.
I do not intend on being further drawn into a argument about marriage. I have said and I will say again that every person is in a unique situation, and only the person in a situation can truly judge what their best course of action should be.
I do not wish to discuss (or argue about) marriage on this board. If you want to continue, click on my name, and send me an e-mail, then we can discuss your opinions offline.
Finally, if our esteemed guest would be so kind, please name yourself so that all of us might know to whom we are speaking with.

Hey yourself Chani, how have you been doing lately?

Three cheers for Daryl! We should all get rid of our wives, cause women always get on a man's nerves. The only time we get along with a woman is in the newness of a relationship. After that it is all down hill. So, that is a good idea you have there let's keep trading our women in every couple of years. However, I have to disagree with your child psychologist comment, cause I know of none that would recommend a father walking out on a relationship or a mother for that matter. Psychologist would always recommend counseling first. Be careful with misleading people Daryl, that is dangerous. Arguing is not a legitimate reason for anyone to walk out. But if you are weak and run who needs a good reason. Arguing is as good as any. So come on guys let's all make a statement to the women in this country, let's walk.

i'm good. i think love & existence need to be tied together. there's more than the male female thing here. slan leat.

Amazing!!! I ask a question about love, and look what happened.

The women of which Country, Stan? This is a global chat forum, you see, so I am not sure if your coments are of a cultural nature which simply requires beating it out of you, or you just have a bad sense of humour.LOL

In one, tongue in cheek, way, I tend to agree, actually. Perhaps marriage licences should have an expiry date - with the couple choosing to renew the agreement or pass it over. Perhaps that would keep the couple committed to 'working together' to make the relationship work and remain respected by the partner? hmmmmm 'work place agreement?' LOL

Lonesome .. that is the way of the Tir Boards, I think *L*. There is no such thing as a simple comment, as each of us will read something differently and wander off on our own tangent. By the 3rd or 4th post, your original post was no long the main focus, unless someone came in and read from the begining. Even then, I think the focus wanes. Still, none the less interesting.

Stan,
I am talking about after you have tried diligently to work things out. There comes a time when you realize that things will not work out, and you can not bring peace and harmony to a household. In that case what you have is a battlefield rather than a home, and a family that are all prisoners of war.

I wonder if those of youwho are so quick to cast disparagement on my remarks, are only showing how closed minded you are. Are you so certain that you are correct, that you would tell your child, or your sibling to remain in a marriage where nothing but fighting occurs, or where they are being abused physically, mentally or emotionally?

If problems can be worked out, by all means do so, but sometimes they cannot be worked out. Does that mean that an entire family has to be held prisoner just to satisfy some sadistically pious moran's view of how others should live their lives?

I am saying that none of us have a right to tell someone else how they should handle their love life, as long as they remain inside the confines of the law. (In some areas the law has no right to go as far as it does, but this is a family board so I'll leave that at that.)

If you are so wise that you feel you can say what is the right choice for another person to make, when you know little or nothing about their situation, then by all means, spout off.

If someone jumps out of a marriage lightly, then the other party is probably better off without them anyway. If you leave, without trying to make things work first, you are only running from your problems, they will probably be much bigger when they finally catch you. If, however, you have diligently tried, to no avail, to make things work, then leaving might be the right thing to do. It should be the last option, not the first, and should not even be considered before other options have been exhausted.

A further thought, When you make a commitment to another person to spend the rest of your lives working together, and living as one, you should never take it as something that you can get out of easily. I would always recommend that two people try to work things out rather than get divorced. (Which in today's society is far from taking the easy way out, divorce is neither cheap nor easy.)

That is why I so strongly recommend that single people who think they are in Love do not rush into matrimony. The engagement period should be at least two years long, and that should only occur after at least one year of courtship (dating). Plenty of people find that after a short time they think that they are with Mr. or Ms. Right. If they are, you will still think so after your courtship period, and your engagement period.

This will help you to ensure you know everything you need to know about the person before you marry them. There are no guarantees, but you are giving your marriage a big boost by doing this. (Not to mention saving yourself the financial hardship brought about by a possible divorce.)

It might be hard to wait, and it might be harder still to walk away from the person who you had hoped you would marry, someday, but it is better to do so while still single than to have to make the choice after being married. There are far too many marriages that happened too soon that will end in a court, and with two people both asking what went wrong. Do not add to that number. Make certain that the person you are with is the right person for you, before you tie the knot. Otherwise you have to face the pious morans like some who have come out on this board who will tell you, "You are evil because you did not stay in your marriage."

As you have seen here, they won't be concerned with the reasons why you are leaving, nor will they consider any efforts you made to 'make it work' sufficient. To those of you who know what it is like to try in vain to make a marriage work that probably should have never happened, my heart goes out to you. To those of you who think that there is no good reason to end a marriage, I pray that fate never gives you your own piety to feast upon.

*stands and applauds*

Hi, Daryl! How've ya been? *S*

Bravo! True representative of the male population. Blame it on the woman and she will get over it. I guess I am not as closed minded as you. I don't know if you are speaking about yourself or what. However, I find that you think that only ONE person in a relationship bears the blame for the "battlefield" situation. That is closed minded in and of itself. As a man, I find that when my wife gets angry or argumentative and the battling begins it is cause she desires from me time, caring, and affection. I think we as men sometimes forget the importance in that. Some men spend more time in a dream state than with their wives and children. I hope to not make that same mistake. I figure if a man doesn't put forth the effort and spend the right kind of time with his wife than some other man will. Anyway, I believe that in a battle I would not care to be your buddy, cause you would probably be weak minded and run when things got bad. In regards to the children, I feel sending the quitting when things get tough message is damaging. It is a man's duty to be strong for his family. Two people are to blame for any battle. So, you can run away from the other person, but half of the problem still will follow cause the person can't run away from themself. As far as the relationship thing goes, anyone can walk away thát's the easy way out. However, there is no pride in walking out on one's children for any parent. So if nothing else seems to be working at the moment just love the spouse for the way they are and don't argue back. Just concentrate your efforts on spending time with and loving your children. You can't go wrong with that. I am not really sure what you mean when you say diligently exhausted every effort. Does that include both parties going to counselling or maybe the family attending a church as a whole? You mentioned that if a person feels they are being abused mentally and emotionally that they should tell the person to stop. Then if the person doesn't stop that they should decided if they want to leave or not. Has anyone ever met a woman that just listens to a man that easily? I haven't. You use the abuse words to freely. This is not about couples that beat each other. This is a discussion about real, true love. One should make every effort to keep that alive.

How's it goin' Lonesomeloser? Doin ok? :)

And so gentle reader, a number of messages were posted between June 3rd and June 8th.
Write (or indeed do most anything else) in haste and repent at leisure.

Unfortunately I was on a sailing boat twixt France and Ireland for the duration. Anything other than what was happening in and around that boat was far from the mind - and impossible to do anything about anyway :)


The 'discussion' (Sheeeeessssssshhhh!) has been rewound back to where it was before June 3rd.


Posting here is (at least) a two-step process.
It's wise to take advantage of the Preview stage to reflect and review/edit a post - or even to cancel it.


The saying - "The moving hand, having writ, moves on" is not necessarily eternally true in Tir, but the "writ" does remain 'moved on from' for some time. Although I respect posters' requests to remove hasty postings, circumstances can get in the way.

Boy just like dallas .......... where am I ???????

*Wakes up, rubs eyes* So was it just a bad dream after all?

I just dont underSTAN...geddit.......

...and why is it that you don't understand? Is it cause you are a male??????????

What everybody should understand is that I've gone to the trouble of scrubbing a series on ill-mannered, abusive messages from the board.
(The decent well-intentioned postings in between were also scrubbed because they were part of a context :)

Anyone trying to resurrect the same line of "sharing their views" will have their IP's banned from posting to the board.
Those messages only continued because I was away.
Don't lose sight of the fact that I can see where you're posting from.

Just drop it.
Anyone who needs to inject personal abuse into a discussion is demonstrating that they have lost the argument.

Now where were we? Oh yeah, this was a discussion about love... *SIGH*

*Drifts off on a silver cloud thinking about how much I love my sweetie and how much I miss her*

The article on the link below is rather interesting. It asks the question: Does Love at first sight exist? (Then attempts to answer it.)

http://encarta.msn.com/column/loveatfirstsightmain.asp

Love is thinking you're totally infatuated with someone and believing that that someone is totally infatuated with you also. ;-}