I couldn't take it anymore...

...the scroll time that is

By Orin on Monday, June 24, 2002 - 08:57 am:
Was it WC Fields?

Once ... in the wilds
of Afghanistan, I lost my corkscrew,
and we were forced to live on nothing but food and water for days.

By Ludd on Monday, June 24, 2002 - 09:44 am:
Orin you must be great to have on a team at pub quizzes

By Lacie on Monday, June 24, 2002 - 02:02 pm:
perhaps we should stick to limericks?? *smile*


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By Lacie on Monday, June 24, 2002 - 02:06 pm:
imagine playing Orin and Shae at trivial pursuit!! *groan* ..


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By Guest on Monday, June 24, 2002 - 05:09 pm:
Yes, it was W.C. Fields

Thanks guest. Unfortunately I posted a couple things to Part 3 before I noticed this new board *L* oh well...

silly you, celt *L*

Famous Quote:
"There is no sincerer love than the love of food. "

- George Bernard Shaw (1856-1950)

I do, though, wonder at his grammar.

does this confirm the view celt that you are a man of many parts................

.............or fragmented :)

Yeah I wondered about his grammar too...


not to mention his grandpa...

"when going through hell the best thing to do is to keep going"....or something like that

What "hell" is that? The hell one's own hatred and arrogance causes in one's own life?

well seeing as there's now a Part 4, it would appear that I've been drawn and quartered...(and you can quit applauding, Seamus LOL)

Was it Sartre who said "Hell is other people"? *G*

when you are in a hole the best thing you can do is to stop digging..........

No...the quote "Hell is other people" is from a Chicago cop on the Eisenhower Expressway *g*

"Because most people think, "Life sucks, and then you die." I disagree. I think life sucks, then you get cancer." D.L

roflmao...with tears in eyes

That is sad guest. Do you or someone you know have cancer?

Its Denis Leary, No Cure For Cancer it concludes:
Then you go into chemotherapy. You lose all your hair, you feel bad about yourself. Then all of the sudden the cancer goes into remission. You look good you feel good, you're going great, and all of the sudden you have a stroke. You can't move your right side. And one day you step off the curb at 68th by Lincoln Center and bang, you get hit by a bus. And then, maybe, you die.

Life isn't one big joke. It's a whole bunch of little jokes that keep knocking you down one after the other... Richard Pryor

seems like all the old folks in my family are dying off from cancer, one by one...jeez, it isn't like we lived at Three Mile Island or Chernobyl...

"its always something" anna rosanna dana

hmmm.....my head is hairless.....and I live only 50 miles from Three Mile Island....
very interesting....but strange... Arte Johnson

Better to be hairless, than ruthless.... Say, isn't that the name of the woman who left ya Seamus McGroovey? *LOL*

*sings in Texan Twang.... "Ruth left me, now I'm gonna be Roooooothlus once more.."

Sheesh, I crack myself up sometimes!

hmmm, that wouldn't be Ruth Buzzi-cut, would it?

Not sure Celt, haven't used the park bench & pidgeon feeding material in a few years.

How bout Edith Anne?

"My momma told me, that Baby Jesus has a round halo light around his head so he can read comic books in the dark.".......

....and that's the truth!... PFGHFGHGHGHFG :~

I don't understand what all the fuss is about chino-therapy I understand buying new clothes can make people happy but does it have to be chinos? couldn't it be jeans or culottes or maybe a nice top! As a matter of fact most of the people talking about chino-therapy look like they could use a new hat or maybe a cap or bonnet...... pardon, oh my, well that isn't the same thing at all.
Nevermind

Heard a joke today that made me laugh in spite of meself...(it's probably an old one, so excuse me if you've heard this one before...)

A priest and a rabbi are sitting in a restaurant ordering dinner. The priest says to the rabbi,"Hey--when are you finally gonna break down and order a nice plate of ham?"
The rabbi replies, "At your wedding."

*rim shot*

*L* I like it!

well, Celt .. ya made the Guest laugh *smile* ... you're a good host.

I oughta go buy that big volume of all the really good and filthy 18th-19th century limericks...that'd do, as far as being a good host, but would prolly get me banned by our Grand Host and InnKeeper *lol

I THINK it better that in times like these
A poet's mouth be silent, for in truth
We have no gift to set a statesman right;
He has had enough of medding who can please
A young girl in the indolence of her youth,
Or an old man upon a winter's night.
W.B.Y

Was perusing the Profile photos just now...must say that Elle gets the Coolest Pic award... she looks like a secret agent, or an avant-garde artist *S*

.. that would fit *s*

*MEOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWW*

It was a compliment, guest.

Oh

Drat!!!And I was looking forward to a good catfight...*weg*

well, you always have been trouble, Celt! *s*

*L* Agrees w/ lace....but then, trouble is always lots of fun, too....*weg*

uh-oh...*backs into corner* *L

Three cheers for the Wenches of Tir
whom we all know and love yet still fear
While their charms are renowned
It is prudent we’ve found
To never make mention of rears...

*ducks*

Come now, Celt!! Surely the wenches aren't THAT bad???

well I did say their charms are renowned...lol

*wonders just how far and how fast Celt can run*....*L*

And can ya duck a flamethrower, man?

*dons asbestos suit and hi-top sneakers*

... be afraid ... be VERY afraid !! They're coming to get you *s*.

Joke-Of-The-Day:
Old Murphy, the town's meanest geezer, dies and at his funeral mass the priest gives the homily and then calls for someone in the congregation to say a few words in eulogy. Not one person speaks up.
"Well, then!" the priest explodes in anger."I'm going to lock those doors and no one leaves until someone says at least ONE good thing about this poor man lying here!"
A long silence ensues. Finally an old man in the back stands up, clears his throat and says:
"Well, his brother was worse."

*rim shot* ok I know it's probably an old one, but I had'nt heard it before *g

The world is very different now. For man holds in his mortal hands the power to abolish all forms of human poverty, and all forms of human life.

We cannot expect that all nations will adopt like systems, for conformity is the jailer of freedom and the enemy of growth.

We are not afraid to entrust the American people with unpleasant facts, foreign ideas, alien philosophies, and competitive values. For a nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people.

Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men.

all the same guy

???? Methinks that post needed a bit more clarification....or at least a topic sentence in the paragraph so we'd know what the point is...

no topic sentance find your own meaning, kinda like looking at a painting but you don't have to twist your neck as much.

No, not your neck, just your brain

Celt... where have you been hiding? I lost my favorites list (computer crash)and need to find your web address to order a piece!!!!! - maryz

oi!

Does the use of purple in a message transform it to the status of an off-color comment?

enquiring minds want to know

No, but it is kinda gay

its true isn't it? about the purple teletubbie the one with the triangle.

maryZ....website is www.mccelticdesign.com
Thanks!

Thanx for the web addy Celt, I had lost my link as well.

sorry for the shameless plug *G*
(but all for a good cause, to help starving artists)

Thanks - that wasn't a shameless plug! Who else will promote you better than yourself?????

Having watched part of the Oscars last night, I can say only one thing:
Michael Moore for President in '04!!!

I'm sure he would be a wonderful choice *LOL*
NOT!!!!!!!!!!

yeah, you're right, probably not, but it would sure shake things up in Washington...*g*

He he he...some people are better at critisising others that actually do the work, or try to do the work...Michael Moore indeed *LOL* What a buffoon

ad hominem...*s

A matter of opinion *S*

Ni dheanfach an saol capall ras d'asal

Enlightenment and Truth. Those are words that should be reserved for people who aren't quick to judge, are tolerant, respectful and flexible. Those are at least some of the characterisitics that create an environment for E&T. I am a person who believes in peace; "Live & Let Live". This war was something I was not for. Saddam is not a good guy and probably should be removed from power but that is a world decision. It is an issue of International Policy that the UN is responsible for. The French, Germans, Russians all have their motives for NOT wanting this war.
Our elected leaders have their reasons as well.
It bothers me to hear from Hollywood how they consider George Bush and idiot or moron. Weigh the education and life accomplishments of our elected leaders to those of our star studded Academy Award winning cast and tell me who the morons are....... Okay so I was against the war and now we're there. we should always support our troops even though we may not support the policy that got them there and at this point we should finish the job and get out as quickly as possible. Let the other Arab nations work jointly with the UN to restore the country.
One more thing ......... Iraq has little to do with 9/11. What got us dragged into 9/11 was
IN PART, the fact that we are supporting Israel
who is a regional oppressor. If we forced Israel
out of the West Bank & Gaza like we forced Saddam
out of Kuwait then we would be impartial and supporting a fair and just peace process. It's easy for fanatics to recruit suicide bombers from destitute and oppressed people. If WE the US stood by our principals over our Allies then we would have the moral high ground. Instead we chose to stand by the oppressor and became a target, that's what happened in 9/11.

P.S.( I was NOT implying that Celt or anyone else here as not possessing the characteristics I mentioned. I was just reflecting aloud the weight of both of those words and realized that often times it is not with people in position of world influence.)

I dont mean to offend anyone but why does the Mightyfionn have to jump in and criticize everyone else who may have an opinion. If anything is written that he takes in the wrong context then off he goes and jumps on their case.Surely we are all entitled to our opinoin without wondering what garbage will be thrown back in our faces. All you are doing is scaring people off.This site is not ruled by the Mightyfionn so please fionn count to 10 next time before you go off and jump down our throat.
I am talking about an earlier incident a few weeks ago where a lot of feelings were stirred up. We can all have a laugh without having to hurt peoples feelings.
I dont think you mean any harm but please just think first next time.

Donal, Excuse me? I have never jumped down anyones throat. I don't ever recall having ill feelings towards nyone except last week when I was slandered. No one in Tir knows me except a handful of people who have met me in person. Wunda, Mick, Cleo & Shamrock. Those people know that I am a good guy with good intentions. Okay so maybe I can stir the pot or when antagonized pop my lid, but I'm really not a bad guy Donal. I have never attacked (unprovoked), slandered or posted anonymously. So your opening line, you don't mean to offend has been compromised. Considering I don't know you I'd venture to say that you are someone I know posting AS AN ALIAS. Notice Donal that my e-mail address is attached to my name. That is a sign that I am open to anyone who wishes to correspond. They may do so only with good intentions. They don't have to agree with me but acting honorable is desired. Everyone is entitled to their feelings and may express them. I have never started a fight in Tir na Nog and have never harbored any ill feelings towards anyone. Even those that have attacked me. Bygones be bygones..........
Now how about shaking hands and we both can be respectful and tolerant. Whatta ya say Donal?

Mightyfionn, i have never thought you are not a good guy,in fact i have agreed and laughed at many things you have written.I have never antagonised you, if i disagree with something you write it does not mean that you are wrong,and if i also have an opinion and you think it is wrong in your eyes ,it does not mean that i am wrong.
Yes please let bygones be bygones,i am willing to shake hands and buy you a drink if i ever run into you...

my my a hornets nest I have stirred...*L*
but glad to see that people here can discuss these things rationally. My original post re Moore was made partly in jest but mostly because I felt that some of the things he had said needed saying. Fionn has quite eloquently made it clear that it's a complex issue, many factors and shades of grey.My fear is that we have an administration that sees things too much in black and white...(IMHO)

and speaking of fear...that's what all this is really about, isn't it?

How about we lighten the mood a little?

"You know the world is going crazy when the best rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy, the Swiss hold the America's Cup, France is accusing the U.S. of arrogance, and Germany doesn't want to go to war."

I thought that was all kind of ironic.

Mac, did you come up with that? Well done lad!!
Celt I couldn't agree with you more, and unfortunately it is not just our administration that sees it in black and white but also the Islamic Fundamentalists. You cannot begin to compromise if you are not tolerant and willing to understand the other side. Ya know the funny thing is that most people I know all feel the same way. Why don't we ever hear this perspective in the media or Washington? Perhaps I should write a letter to the Editor? Have a great weekend guys. DFF

*L* good one Mac
and good points made Fionn

I wonder....if someone is against the Iraq war, would they be suffering from Iraqnaphobia?

*Fires a round of corn at Seamus*

Cousin Fran's Homily > My cousin Francis is a Franciscan Priest. He is obviously a spiritual person but he is also hugely popular where ever he goes. Immediately after the WTC attacks Fran was called upon to use his expertise in Trauma & Hospice Counseling and was assigned to a number of NYC Firehouses to counsel those brave men. Fran also has a national reputation and speaks all over the US on 9/11 issues, Trauma & Hospice Counseling as well as religious topics. Francis was a friend of Fr Michael Judge the NYC Fire Chaplain who perished in the 9/11 attacks and was runner up to fill that position. Once in a while he shares with his family & friends his weekly homily. I read this today and thought it was apropos. If this offends anyone, my apologies. I just thought the issues of Peace, Tolerance and Faith were worth sharing. This was todays homily; ENJOY!


Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2003 10:18 AM
Subject: Today's Homily


It has been a while since I sent out a homily. here is today's.

Fourth Sunday of Lent – B 03-30-03 SJER
“For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him might not perish, but might have eternal life.”
Darkness and light. These images provide a dramatic portrayal of the extremes of human experience. Notice that when you turn a TV on mid- morning to check on the news about the war; Baghdad is in darkness, silently awaiting the possible onslaught of coalition attacks. And in our evening time, we see pictures of dawn and bright mornings in the Iraqi capital, whose people for years and years have lived each day under the darkness of hunger, deception, fear, and oppression.
It reminds me of a similar morning; September 11, 2001. I’m sure many of you remember what a bright, sunny day it was, and in the space of a few moments, how lower Manhattan was cast into a blackness like night, as the lights went out on 2,819 innocent lives.
I know many of us are struggling in the depths of our hearts with the war in Iraq. No civilized person believes in war; nor should anyone choose to put so many lives in harms way if there is alternative. Clearly as a Christian community we believe in exploring every avenue known to humanity to prevent armed conflict and the destruction of human life. Our Catholic Church will always stand for the possibility of a peaceful resolution to every conflict; and that must always be at the heart of our prayers and efforts.
At the same time, we must acknowledge that we do not live in a world where everyone shares our views on peace, religious tolerance, freedom, human dignity, and the sacredness of life. Even though Islam is a faith which generally shares our vision of a world in harmony and at peace, there is more to it’s story.
Today we are forced contend with the reality that there are significant numbers of Islamic extremists who believe that those who do not worship Allah, in the manner in which they proclaim Allah should be worshipped, deserve death. They would inflict violence on the other members of their own Islamic faith that they believe have betrayed their more extreme understanding of Islam. They hold us, and our Western values, responsible, in part, for the infidelity of their brethren. They are not going to go away. They have undertaken an Islamic “jihad,” a holy war whose aim is to destroy the non-believers, the infidels, and that would include us.
In the face of this reality we recognize that “diplomacy” takes on whole new levels of meaning. It is difficult to negotiate with people on issues they proclaim to be non-negotiable. Why would we expect anyone to negotiate with the Great Satan? They believe we are that Satan.
If we find it so unthinkable that people would use religious motives for torturing, oppressing, and perhaps even killing other human beings, we must shamefully acknowledge that even Christians have harbored such beliefs in the earlier centuries of civilization. I daresay there are small pockets of Christian extremists even today, in America, who harbor a similar kind of hatred for groups of people who do not share their views. If you don’t believe me, there are a few web sites I would very reluctantly direct you to.
In today’s Gospel John tells us about the conversation Jesus had with a Pharisee, a ruler of the Jews named Nicodemus. In an earlier passage John tells us that Nicodemus came to Jesus at night, setting the stage for the subject of their conversation. Nicodemus came to Jesus under the cover of darkness for fear that his own colleagues might condemn and punish him for seeking the truth, for seeking en”light”enment. Jesus tells Nicodemus that the Son of Man must endure great suffering and even death in order that God’s people may live.
Jesus goes on to describe the fundamental human struggle of evil versus good. God wishes to save his people from condemnation and is willing to sacrifice his own Son, the one to whom Nicodemus is speaking; in order that God’s people may have eternal life.
Jesus describes how evil people are drawn to darkness, to deception, to promoting ignorance and preventing others from discovering the truth. Those who live in the truth are willing to emerge from the darkness and into the open, so that their deeds may be clearly seen as done in God.
I realize that we may share many different views on whether the war with Iraq is necessary or justified. In a sense we have the luxury of debating the pros and cons of such a war; our coalition service men and women, have left that luxury behind in order to stare evil in the face; to risk and possibly sacrifice their lives in order to overcome it.
We continue to pray in earnest that somehow, on the other side of this horrible conflict, light and truth, freedom and human dignity may prevail for those who have lived under oppression and fear for far too long.
The struggle between good and evil is often complex and never easy or pretty. Especially in a world as complex as ours, these issues serve to draw us into a mystery that we cannot fully comprehend.
In our spiritual journey, these final weeks of Lent will draw us into another conflict and just such a mystery. We will stand by Jesus as our Savior is arrested under the cover of darkness. We will hear how the most innocent human person to ever walk this earth suffered torture and imprisonment for who he was and for believing and teaching the truth. At the moment Jesus gave over his spirit the sky grew dark, the curtain in the temple was torn in two. The hearts of all true believers are destined to be torn again and again.
In a somewhat different way this mystery unfolds itself before the entire world in Iraq. Many are quite sure that this war should never have taken place. Many of my colleagues in the clergy and religious life are certain that this war is unjustified and immoral. Others are certain that this was the right thing and the only thing the United States and its allies could do. If you ask me what the answer is at this moment I have to say in all honesty, “I don’t know, I really don’t know.”
It is often in this space, where many find themselves right now, this place of “not-knowing,” that our spirits are deepened and our faith can grow stronger. St. Paul assures us that the way to true life in Christ is to embrace our powerlessness and cast ourselves on the mercy of God.In these difficult times we need, more than ever, to embrace our faith in Jesus Christ who came, not to condemn the world but to save it.
Yes, there are things we really do not know. Let me leave you with what we do know.
There is no evil and no enemy stronger than the hope we have in Christ Jesus our Lord flowing from the power of His resurrection. This hope is rooted in that beautiful passage at the heart and soul of all revelation:
“For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him might not perish, but might have eternal life.”

Cousin Fran has a way with words, Fionn. I like the words of Cousin Fran .. no matter what religion he / me / you be.

We are only ever 'right' in our own head.

Thanks for sharing this, Derm. (I DO hope you warned Cousin Fran you were posting this on the net!! *L*)

Celt, No more Oscar watching for you...*L*

Amen to that *G* And thanks for sharing the sermon, Fionn

"Who's Smarter?" by Cindy Osborne

The Hollywood group is at it again. Holding anti-war rallies, screaming about the Bush Administration, running ads in major newspapers, defaming the President and his Cabinet every chance they get,to anyone and everyone who
will listen. They publicly defile them and call them names like "stupid", "morons",and "idiots". Jessica Lange went so far as to tell a crowd in
Spain that she hates President Bush and is embarrassed to be an American.

So, just how ignorant are these people who are running the country? Let's
look at the biographies of these "stupid", "ignorant" , "moronic" leaders,
and then at the celebrities who are castigating them:

President George W. Bush: Received a Bachelors Degree from Yale University
and an MBA from Harvard Business School. He served as an F-102 pilot for the
Texas Air National Guard. He began his career in the oil and gas business in
Midland in 1975 and worked in the energy industry until 1986. He was elected
Governor on November 8, 1994, with 53.5 percent of the vote. In a historic
re-election victory, he became the first Texas Governor to be elected to
consecutive four-year terms on November 3, 1998 winning 68.6 percent of the
vote. In 1998 Governor Bush won 49 percent of the Hispanic vote, 27 percent
of the African-American vote, 27 percent of Democrats and 65 percent of
women. He won more Texas counties, 240 of 254, than any modern Republican
other than Richard Nixon in 1972 and is the first Republican gubernatorial candidate to win the heavily Hispanic and Democratic border counties of El Paso, Cameron and Hidalgo. (Someone began circulating a false story about
his I.Q. being lower than any other President. If you believed it, you might
want to go to URBANLEGENDS.COM and see the truth.)


Vice President Dick Cheney: Earned a B.A. in 1965 and a M.A. in 1966, both in political science. Two years later, he won an American Political Science Association congressional fellowship. One of Vice President Cheney's primary duties is to share with individuals, members of Congress and foreign leaders,
President Bush's vision to strengthen our economy, secure our homeland and win the War on Terrorism. In his official role as President of the Senate, Vice President Cheney regularly goes to Capital Hill to meet with Senators
and members of the House of Representatives to work on the Administration's legislative goals. In his travels as Vice President, he has seen first hand the great demands the war on terrorism is placing on the men and women of
our military, and he is proud of the tremendous job they are doing for the United States of America.

Secretary of State Colin Powell: Educated in the New York City public
schools, graduating from the City College of New York (CCNY), where he
earned a Bachelor's Degree in geology. He also participated in ROTC at CCNY and received a commission as an Army second lieutenant upon graduation in June 1958. His further academic achievements include a Master of Business
Administration Degree from George Washington University. Secretary Powell is the recipient of numerous U.S. and foreign military awards and decorations. Secretary Powell's civilian awards include two Presidential Medals of Freedom, the President's Citizens Medal, the Congressional Gold Medal, the Secretary of State Distinguished Service Medal, and the Secretary of Energy
Distinguished Service Medal. Several schools and other institutions have been named in his honor and he holds honorary degrees from universities and colleges across the country. (Note: He retired as Four Star General in the
United States Army)

Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld: Attended Princeton University on Scholarship (AB, 1954) and served in the U.S. Navy (1954-57) as a Naval
aviator; Congressional Assistant to Rep. Robert Griffin (R-MI), 1957-59; U.S. Representative, Illinois, 1962-69; Assistant to the President, Director of the Office of Economic Opportunity, Director of the Cost of Living Council, 1969-74; U.S. Ambassador to NATO, 1973-74; head of Presidential Transition Team, 1974; Assistant to the President, Director of White House Office of
Operations, White House Chief of Staff, 1974-77; Secretary of Defense,
1975-77.


Secretary of Homeland Security Tom Ridge: Raised in a working class family in
veterans' public housing in Erie. He earned a scholarship to Harvard, graduating with honors in 1967. After his first year at The Dickinson School of Law, he was drafted into the U.S. Army, where he served as an infantry
staff sergeant in Vietnam, earning the Bronze Star for Valor. After returning to Pennsylvania, he earned his Law Degree and was in private practice before becoming Assistant District Attorney in Erie County. He was
elected to Congress in 1982. He was the first enlisted Vietnam combat veteran elected to the U.S. House, and was overwhelmingly re-elected six times.

National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice: Earned her Bachelor's Degree in Political Science, Cum Laude and Phi Beta Kappa, from the University of Denver in 1974; her Master's from the University of Notre Dame in 1975; and
her Ph.D. from the Graduate School of International Studies at the University
of Denver in 1981. (Note: Rice enrolled at the University of Denver at the age of 15, graduating at 19 with a Bachelor's Degree in Political Science (Cum Laude). She earned a Master's Degree at the University of Notre Dame
and a Doctorate from the University of Denver's Graduate School of International Studies. Both of her advanced degrees are also in Political Science.) She is a Fellow of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences and has been
awarded Honorary Doctorates from Morehouse College in 1991, the University of Alabama in 1994, and the University of Notre Dame in 1995. At Stanford, she has been a member of the Center for International Security and Arms Control, a Senior Fellow of the Institute for International Studies, and a Fellow (by courtesy) of the Hoover Institution. Her books include Germany Unified and Europe Transformed (1995) with Philip Zelikow, The Gorbachev Era (1986) with
Alexander Dallin, and Uncertain Allegiance: The Soviet Union and the Czechoslovak Army (1984). She also has written numerous articles on Soviet
and East European foreign and defense policy, and has addressed audiences in settings ranging from the U.S. Ambassador's Residence in Moscow to the Commonwealth Club to the 1992 and 2000 Republican National Conventions. From
1989 through March 1991, the period of German reunification and the final days of the Soviet Union, she served in the Bush Administration as Director, and then Senior Director, of Soviet and East European Affairs in the National
Security Council, and a Special Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs. In 1986, while an international affairs fellow of the Council on Foreign Relations, she served as Special Assistant to the Director of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. In 1997, she served on the Federal Advisory Committee on Gender -- Integrated Training in the Military. She was a member of the boards of directors for the Chevron Corporation, the Charles Schwab
Corporation, the William and Flora Hewlett Foundation, the University of Notre Dame, the International Advisory Council of J.P. Morgan and the San Francisco Symphony Board of Governors. She was a Founding Board member of
the Center for a New Generation, an educational support fund for schools in East Palo Alto and East Menlo Park, California and was Vice President of the Boys and Girls Club of the Peninsula. In addition, her past board service has encompassed such organizations as Transamerica Corporation, Hewlett Packard,
the Carnegie Corporation, Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, The Rand Corporation, the National Council for Soviet and East European Studies, the Mid-Peninsula Urban Coalition and KQED, public broadcasting for San Francisco. Born November 14, 1954 in Birmingham, Al abama, she resides in Washington, D.C.

So who are these celebrities? What is their education? What is their experience in affairs of State or in National Security? While I will
defend to the death their right to express their opinions, I think that if they are going to call into question the intelligence of our leaders, we should also have all the facts on their educations and background:

Barbra Streisand : Completed high school Career: Singing and acting

Cher: Dropped out of school in 9th grade. Career: Singing and acting

Martin Sheen: Flunked exam to enter University of Dayton. Career: Acting

Jessica Lange: Dropped out college mid-freshman year. Career: Acting

Alec Baldwin: Dropped out of George Washington U. after scandal. Career:
Acting

Julia Roberts: Completed high school. Career: Acting

Sean Penn: Completed High school. Career: Acting

Susan Sarandon: Degree in Drama from Catholic University of America in
Washington, D.C. Career: Acting

Ed Asner; Completed High school. Career: Acting

George Clooney: Dropped out of University of Kentucky. Career: Acting

Michael Moore: Dropped out first year University of Michigan. Career: Movie
Director

Sarah Jessica Parker: Completed High School. Career: Acting

Jennifer Anniston: Completed High School. Career: Acting

Mike Farrell: Completed High school. Career: Acting

Janeane Garofelo: Dropped out of College. Career: Stand up comedienne

Larry Hagman: Attended Bard College for one year. Career: Acting

While comparing the education and experience of these two groups, we should also remember that President Bush and his cabinet are briefed daily, even hourly, on the War on Terror and threats to our security. They are privy to
information gathered around the world concerning the Middle East, the threats to America, the intentions of terrorists and terrorist-supporting
governments. They are in constant communication with the CIA, the FBI, Interpol, NATO, The United Nations, our own military, and that of our allies around the world. We cannot simply believe that we have full knowledge of the threats because we watch CNN!! We cannot believe that we are in any way as informed as our leaders.


These celebrities have no intelligence-gathering agents, no fact-finding groups, no insight into the minds of those who would destroy our country.
They only have a deep seated hatred for all things Republican. By nature, and no one knows quite why, the Hollywood elitists detest Conservative views and anything that supports or uplifts the United States of America. The silence
was deafening from the Left when Bill Clinton bombed a pharmaceutical factory outside of Khartoum, or when he attacked the Bosnian Serbs in 1995 and 1999. He bombed Serbia itself to get Slobodan Milosevic out of Kosovo, and not a
single peace rally was held. When our Rangers were ambushed in Somalia and 18 young American lives were lost, not a peep was heard from Hollywood. Yet now, after our nation has been attacked on its own soil, after 3,000 Americans were killed, by freedom-hating terrorists, while going about their routine lives, they want to hold rallies against the war. Why the change?
Because an honest, God-fearing Republican sits in the White House.

Another irony is that in 1987, when Ronald Reagan was in office, the Hollywood group aligned themselves with disarmament groups like SANE, FREEZE and PEACE ACTION, urging our own government to disarm and freeze the manufacturing of any further nuclear weapons, in order to promote world peace.It is curious that now, even after we have heard all the evidence
that Saddam Hussein has chemical, biological and is very close to obtaining nuclear weapons, their is no cry from this group for HIM to disarm. They believe we should leave him alone in his quest for these weapons of mass destruction, even though it is certain that these deadly weapons will eventually be used against us in our own cities.

So why the hype out of Hollywood? Could these celebrities believe that since they draw such astronomical salaries, they are entitled to also
determine the course of our Nation? That they can make viable decisions concerning war and peace? Did Michael Moore have the backing of the Nation when he recently thanked France, on our behalf, for being a "good enough friend to tell us we were wrong"? I know for certain he was not speaking for me. Does Sean Penn fancy himself a Diplomat, in going to Iraq when we
are just weeks away from war? Does he believe that his High School Diploma gives him the knowledge (and the right) to go to a country that is controlled by a maniacal dictator, and speak on behalf of the American people? Or is
it the fact that he pulls in more money per year than the average American worker will see in a lifetime? Does his bank account give him clout?

The ultimate irony is that many of these celebrities have made a shambles of their own lives, with drug abuse, alcoholism, numerous marriages and divorces, scrapes with the law, publicized temper tantrums, etc. How dare
they pretend to know what is best for an entire nation! What is even more bizarre is how many people in this country will listen and accept their views, simply because they liked them in a certain movie, or have fond memories of an old television sitcom!

It is time for us, as citizens of the United States, to educate ourselves about the world around us. If future generations are going to enjoy the freedoms that our forefathers bequeathed us, if they are ever to know peace
in their own country and their world, to live without fear of terrorism striking in their own cities, we must assure that this nation remains
strong. We must make certain that those who would destroy us are made aware of the severe consequences that will befall them.

Yes, it is a wonderful dream to sit down with dictators and terrorists and join hands, singing Cumbaya and talking of world peace. But it is not real. We did not stop Adolf Hitler from taking over the entire continent of Europe by simply talking to him. We sent our best and brightest, with the strength and determination that this Country is known for, and defeated the Nazi regime. President John F. Kennedy did not stop the Soviet ships from unloading their nuclear missiles in Cuba in 1962 with mere words. He stopped them with action, and threat of immediate war if the ships did not turn
around. We did not end the Cold War with conferences. It ended with the
strong belief of President Ronald Reagan... PEACE through STRENGTH.

Wow.. Father Mychal Judge... I don't think any man could fill his shoes..I don't think many would want to try.. How nice it was to read his name.. ReginaClare

ah jaysus just when the dust had settled too...

Well, as to turning this board into a resume post, that line of argument is ad hominem and therefore not worth pursuing further.
As to your secondary point, which is a valid one,
I agree that Americans are far too complacent and need to educate themselves about the world around them. We need to turn off ABC/NBC/CBS and go to alternative news sources so that our entire worldview is not fashioned through 30-second sound bites and press briefings. We might even dig a little deeper into the news and discover that many of these "crises" are of our own government's making. Why do they hate us? Not because of our freedom (though yes that irks some of 'em), but because of our foriegn policies.

Guest, I am too tired at this late hour to argue Reagan's "peace thru strength" politics, and it would just give me a coronary anyway...*g*
cheers to all....and godspeed our boys back home soon

Don't get too excited about mud-slinging, no matter which side of a 'discussion' it come from.

The whole idea that posession of educational qualifications necessarily makes someone qualified to order societies for good is a fantasy.
The idea that people who do things that we strongly disagree with are 'stupid' or 'morons' is equally a fantasy.

Are we to believe that all the people who did good in the world are 'smart', and all the people who did evil are 'dumb'? No! It doesn't stand up.

The "Who's Smarter" diatribe above is indeed ad hominem. It contributes nothing but more mud-slinging and inaccuracies.

Ignore it. It's so shot full of holes that to discuss it would just start a flame war.

The best thing to do is to look for a range of information sources and look for the truth hidden between the extremes.
It's clear (to an outside observer at any rate) that the types of sources mentioned by Celt are not balanced. If a Network reporter in the land of "free speech" can get sacked for questioning the line, what does that tell us about the line?

Acc as usual you are a voice of reason. Point well made! I just had someone I know and respect mention that we should have blind faith in our elected President. I answered okay, great idea! We can now do away with our legislative and judiciary bodies not to mention our consitution. What would the word be for such an idea; DICTATORSHIP comes to mind.

Talk about ad hominem. To jump from blind faith to a dictatorship is kind of a quantum leap. The third branch of the government that you didn't mention, the executive branch, has powers that are checked and balanced by the other two branches of government (in theory.) If the president has committed an offense, then he should be impeached. I don't see anybody from any party jumping up to do that at this time. I'd also say this, to have blind faith in anything or anybody is at the least, not very wise. I would also mention, lest there be some confusion about the power of the U.S. government to fire reporters, that Peter Arnett was not sacked by the government or by the people of the United States, but by his employers at both NBC and the National Geographic. I agree he had every right to say what he did, but people also have the same right to agree or disagree as they see fit. I know there are people that are saying he should be charged with treason or cowardice in the face of the enemy, but once again, those are people expressing their freedom of speech. My goodness, but we do have a lively discussion here. Can ya hear me now? Good.

One thing this thread teaches me is that I wish I knew more about the way the USA is governed and the balance bewtween the president , congress , senate and judiciary. This is the only super power and we non americans need to really understand how it all works as it does impact on us. Any quick mentoring availible?Ta

Check these websites Ludd

http://www.tocqueville.org/

http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.overview.html

http://thomas.loc.gov/home/lawsmade.toc.html

If you read all those things, you'll be more knowledgable than the average U.S. Citizen. If you have a question, feel free to email me at the addy on my profile.

The reporter was indeed fired by his employers.
The same employers set out initially to defend him. Freedom of the press, freedom of speech, etc. - Then something happened to change their minds.
Nothing physical can have happened (as in 'the facts'). Nothing moral changed.
Somebody changed their attitude. He was therefore effectively fired by the people who pressurised his employers.

There are no doubt people who are expressing their freedom of speech to say that he should get a bullet in the back of the head - as he would have been dealt with in Iraq (making what happened to him a matter of degree as opposed to a matter of principle).

He lost his livelihood, and probably has been blackballed from any likely alternative employment. He was lynched because he spoke.
Freedom? McCarthyism?

Whatever happened to "I disagree with what you say, but I will defend with my life your freedom to say it"?

In Iraq everyone was 'free' to praise Saddam, despite the clear evidence that he was evil incarnate.
What are US network reporters free to say? Post-liberation, what will Iraq's press be liberated to say? What is this freedom thing?


There is a great difference between patriotism and nationalism.
I believe that we are seeing great outpourings of nationalism currently. That's not good. Nationalism has never been good.

Abraham Lincoln-16th President-LESS than 1 yr of formal education.
Harry Truman-33rd President-high school graduate-farmer
Ronald Reagan-40th President-1st hollywood actor to be elected President..The only other time he was president was when he was the head of the SAG (the actor's union). Great way to gain experience to run a country.
To borrow a line from Mac (who borrowed it from a TV ad..*L*), can you hear me now?

Wow, have we come a long way from the original title of this thread, or what? When is part 5 coming up, Celt? *L*

But is this purely an American phenomena Acc? I mean, when somebody does something majorly unpopular in most countries that allow freedom of speech, are not the people able to influence that individual's employer to turn him or her out? In the U.S., Mr. Arnett will have a right to sue NBC and National Geographic for wrongful termination. I would hazard a guess that the people or corporations that foot the bill for NBC through commercial time purchased on the network were the ones applying the pressure. Probably National Geographic for similar reasons, even though they are supposed to be non-profit. As for nationalism, I don't believe America has a corner on that market. Of course America is the target here because of the war with Iraq. Nationalism may not be a good thing, but I believe it is a fact of life in certain periods of any country's existance. I also would like to know what happened to "I disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"? I remember hearing that quite often as a child and I believe I have uttered those words myself. That notion may have been usurped by political correctness and society's fear of offending somebody for all the wrong reasons. The soap box is free, I'm finished.

Mac? That was my point, I think you missed it lad. Having blind faith in your President means you never need to question his authority, RIGHT? In that situation he can interpret the law as he feels fit (judicial powers) and write any law as he feels fit (legislative). I didn't think I needed to mention that the President is of the Executive branch. I think we're all educated to know that. There is no room for blind faith in Government, politics or religion. Heck, I know some people who'll even say that about love!

Derm, it doesn't matter what we think. Did anybody ask you how you felt before they started fighting? I know they didn't ask me. The only power we have is our voices and our vote and most people don't exercise the right to vote in America.

aside -

"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."
Galileo Galilei

Good point, Mac.

Now ... I am taking the three dogs for a romp at the beach. When I return I wish that ...
- Korea's firepower has malfunctioned
- the war is over
- Bush has realised there is a 'rest of the world'
- Blair has dislodged the puppeteer's hand from his arse
- Little Johnny finds an alternate path in 'defending Australia'
- I have won lotto

Touche Mac !! I'll have to call my contacts up on "The Hill" and remind them in the future to check with all us Tir folk before contemplating another action. By the way, drop me an e-mail and tell me how you're doing, what's new stuff.
*
Lacie that sounds like a dialogue for another version of the "Producers" written by Lacie, Directed by Celt and Produced by Acc. ;)

Me, try to direct THIS bunch? Oy.*L*

I'd be glad to start Part 5 btw, but not sure how to open a subpage under this heading...(if I wait long enough, I'm sure Lacie'll do it out of frustration with the scroll time *g)