Hello, great website. The parts you have up of SHORT SOCIAL HISTORY OF ANCIENT IRELAND are really neat.

I was, however, curious as to the methods of warfare... a part that is not up on the webpage. What were the general tactics? Did they use shield-walls, or just charge in?

I'm also curious about the ships they had, you know, you can find all kinds of information about Viking longships (illiterate pagans), yet almost nothing on the English or Irish ships of the day.

Can anyone give me a hand with this?

Yes, but just a little, I fear. Firstly, the Vikings were no more illiterate than the Irish at the time. We're talking about the 9th and 10th centuries here. The Norse were not illiterate. They had their runes, and their decorative art. Have a look for Urnes style art on the web, or through your library. The iconography and symbolism is worth spending time on. Secondly, although Ireland had been Christianised for a few centuries prior to the early Viking raids, pagan tradition continued to exist in daily life in Ireland, and still does to some extent.

As regards warfare among the Celts, it was usual among the Celtic tribes to have a duel between champions, and the tribe of whichever hero won got the honours. However, when it came to the Romans, the Gauls and Britons were at a disadvantage. They made lots of threatening noises, and then charged at the enemy, but the Romans were a very disciplined army and were able to defend themselves well. The Gauls and the Britons had quite a few victories over the Romans, but they could not overcome the Roman way of warfare, and eventually the Romans won the day.

As regards ships, the Irish used vessels that were capable of relatively long voyages. They travelled by boat from Ireland to Britain, as evidenced by the capture of Patrick and many other captives during the same raid, indicating that their boats were substantial and capable of carrying many people. Patrick's writings also indicate that the Irish travelled to mainland Europe. During the early Christian period, when events began to be recorded, there is strong evidence that there was a very potent Irish fleet of 'warships' that were available for hire, especially between the north-eastern and eastern part of Ireland and Britain.

The story of the voyage of St. Brendan the Navigator illustrates how capable Irish boats were able to cope with rough Atlantic seas, and there are other 'imram,' stories of sea voyages, that indicate that early Irish vessels were competent to travel far off-shore.

There is a book on early Irish boats. I don't have the details here, but I'll find out and post them to the board.

Ok Shae ... this stuff is great.

Any idea what shape the first foot on Ireland was? Firbolg? Any theories on when? And from where? .. Is there archealogical evidence? Most sources of Ancient history seem to conflict to me.

Full Pint

Hi Full Pint

I assume you mean human foot;)

The earliest archaeological evidence we have of human habitation in Ireland dates from about 7000 BCE (before the Christian era), which was in the Mesolithic or middle stone age, shortly after the last ice cap retreated. Archaeologists think they crossed over from present-day Scotland to the north-east of Ireland and slowly spread westward across the northern part of the country. Migrations into Ireland continued over the centuries and Neolithic, or new stone age, artefacts start to appear about 5000 BCE. The Bronze Age, which seems to have started around the Aegean about 3500 BCE, arrived in Ireland about 1000 years later, by which time people had changed from a hunter/gatherer to a more settled agricultural society. The earliest evidence of Celtic influence dates from about 600 BCE, again in the north of the country.

We don't know what any of these people called themselves and there is at least some evidence that even the Celts didn't have a name for themselves. The Firbolg, Tuatha De Danann, Milesians, etc., all appear in the Lebor Gabala, the Book of Invasions, which is a mythical, ficticious, history of Ireland dating from about the 8th century CE. I suspect that's the reason you are confused by the different sources. You can take it that anything written by the ancient Irish about events before about 600 CE is mostly myth. The two exceptions are St. Patrick's 'Letter' and 'Confession.'

As far as warfare goes, would it not be safe to presume that the war tactics used by other Celtic tribes would be similar to those used by the original Celts of Ireland? If so, they used short round shields, and they went for short quick battles. They tried to psych themselves up and demoralise their enemies with wild chanting and singing before and during the battle. During the early days of Rome, Celtic invaders were known to have a habit of going into battle wearing a sword, shield, and nothing else. They actually drove all of the Romans out of Rome for a while and laid siege to the Capital where the Romans took refuge. They were not prepared for a seige, and soon took a ransom of a ton (or maybe three, I forget which) of gold and left. The Roman Army learned how to deal with the Celts in battle, but never lost their fear of the Celts. That may be further back than you wanted, as it is all before the Celts went to Ireland, but it does give an interesting view into the history of our people.

Thanks Shae ... you're right many of the sources I've gone to are in conflict with each other. e.g, Lugh of the Tuatha de Danaan was supposed to have been King from 1869bc ... His son Cuchulainn often cited as a great CELTIC warrior ... *scratches head*

Thanks for the help

Hi Fullpint,

Although I agree with Shae that The Book of Invasions is probably mostly mythical, there is a problem with ancient transcriptions of previousely "oral" histories. It is sorting out what is myth and what is legend. Myth has no basis in fact, where legend does have a basis in fact. For example, the story of Troy or the Book of Hopi are now considered legend. The key to the sorting process is to remember, first the ancient writers deemed these events important enough to write them down, a heavy commitment for them when you realise what it took just to make a book, and secondly, that the oral history was deemed important enough to be memorized and passed on to the next generation. What needs to be done is to look at the high points and cross correlate them with evidence from other sources, written or otherwise. Shae can correct me here, but the Milesians (Sons of Mil) are also mentioned in histories found in Spain and state that they left Spain on a voyage for a land to the northwest. Suddenly, they appear in the Book of Invasions. Are they the same Sons of Mil, we can not say for sure, but it would seem pretty likely. Also timings have a tendancy to change, for example the arrival of the peoples in North America was considered for the last 50 years to be around 11 thousand years ago, but that is under heavy attack now with new archeological evidences. Just remember to keep your wimsy filters on.

Another point about the Oral History in Ireland is that since the Poets were given the task to keep the histories, they were required to memorize everything. Only one copy of anything was written down and it was done so in greek according to the legends I have read. It was not until the tenth century that this started to change. A poet had to aprintice for twenty years before being allowed to call himself a poet. An old Irish saying is It is the Blackest of Infamies to conceal the truth of history. (That does not say that the story was not spiced up with poetic license.)

Hmmm. If you can find your sources for this, Daryl, I'd love to check them out because my understanding is somewhat different to yours. As far as I am aware, the Irish poets didn't write anything down because, apart from ogham, a written Irish language didn't exist until the sixth century. The stories were then written, in Old Irish and Latin, by Christian scribes who, although mostly Irish, were not necessarily poets themselves. They simply recorded what they were told by the bards. As for the twenty years apprenticship, that applied to druids rather than bards who studied for twelve years.

If I recall properly, it came from Michael Dames book, Mythical Ireland, but I might be wrong on that. I have about twenty different books on the Mythology of Ireland, and about ten on the history of Ireland. I think it was specifically referring to the Druids, but it has been several years since I read it. I can try to check it later on.

One of the original written attempts is the Dindshenchas which was a collection of poetry and prose written in 1160 AD. It is noted that this was more Mythical than historical however. The interesting thing was that it made a clockwise (Or sunwise) circuit of Ireland in its tales. I am skimming through Mythical Ireland (as I have it at work with me) and I do not see the reference to the written form nor the specific length of time. It is in one of the other books I have. I will try to find it, and get back with you when I do. I usually use Michael Dames'book for reference, as it seems to cover the most ground in explaining the old Myths.

The earliest surviving Irish manuscripts date from the 7th and 8th centuries. The Book of Kells, although not strictly Irish, is 8th century. St. Patrick's 'Confession' was written in the 5th century, but his original hasn't survived. It was copied into the Book of Armagh by a scribe called Ferdomnach in either 807 or 812. However, it is generally accepted that 7th and 8th century scribes had access to earlier manuscripts, mostly of a religious nature and probably in Latin or Greek. I don't know if it has been established exactly when the written Irish language first appeared.

The Dindsenchas is a collection of place-name stories. It seems to have been very important to the early Irish that places should have a name - almost to the point that they couldn't exist without being called something. Even the Táin has quite a few unnessecary digressions that explain how a place got its name. Moving sunwise also seems to have been an important pre-Christian practice that was carried over into the Christian tradition. For example, 'patterns' held at holy wells often include the ritual of circling the well three times in a clockwise fashion.

the Irish princess Isolde from the Richard Wagner opera Tristan and Isolde (I know there are earlier references to her but none as well known)....myth or legend?

Here is a question, Shae, The Mythical Isle Brazil, Some of the legends I have read about it sound very similar to some of the Atlantis Legends. Is there any serious works that explore this possibility? I have not been able to get my hands on any of the old books on the subject, but I am very interested in finding out more about this Island. Can oyu (Or anyone else) help? The modern country Brazil was named after it, and it was located at 51 degrees 10 minutes North by 15 degrees 30 minutes West.

Hello Daryl

The island is called variously - Hy-Breasal, Hy-Breasil, Hy-Brasil. Unlike Atlantis, it spent most of its time under the sea and re-surfaced every seven years. One legend says that it would stay on the surface permanently if it came in contact with fire, and become an earthly paradise. The inhabitants were able to survive quite happily under the sea. It is associated with Manannan Mac Lir, the Irish sea god, and is sometimes equated with Tír na nÓg although Tír, while an island, remains on the surface all the time. The legend of Hy-Breasil was so popular, especially in late medieval times, that people believed it did actually exist and, as you say, European explorers thought they had found it in South America, even though the early cartographers placed it just southwest of Ireland.

Hi Shae
please,tell me something about the archaeological site of Temhair:was there a magnificent palace?
What kind of kingship did the Aird Righ exercize?
How did noblepeople's houses differentiate from the others?
thank you very much

Temhair, or Tara, was the place of inauguration of the kings of Leinster. Whether or not it was actually lived in all the time is a matter of debate but the concensus seems to be that it was used more for ritual than for habitation, at least in the last few centuries before it was abandoned in the 5th century. A number of buildings existed on the site, but wheter any of them could be regarded as a palace depends on your definition. The structures were made from timber and clay, so would not be very palatial when compared to the buildings in Rome, for example.

The archaeological remains at Tara consist mainly of a number of circular earthen embankments, and a couple of rectangular structures. Each structure was given a fanciful name during the last half of the 19th century, none of which reflects what the structures actually were. For example, the Mound of the Hostages is in reality a Neolithic burial mound dating from around the same time as Newgrange. The "Banqueting Hall" was probably one of the main roadways that led to Tara.

Like the other inauguration sites, Tara is on a hill that provides an extensive view of the surrounding countryside.

There is a lot of inaccuracy concerning the role of the Árd Righ. There was no Kigh King of all Ireland before Brian Boru in the 11th century and even his High Kingship didn't last very long. In early Ireland, any man who could trace his ancestry back four generations could become a king. Somebody estimated that there were about 120 kings at any one time. However, these were mostly petty kings and usually owed allegiance to a more powerful king. He, in turn, owed allegiance to a provincial king. The lesser kings were expected to provide a feast for their overlord and his entourage once a year, and to provide warriors in time of war. The overlord provided gifts to the lesser kings and protected them from attack.

As you can guess, early Irish society was highly stratified. The Brehon Laws specified the number of cattle each class should have, the size of dwelling and even the number of different colours that could be worn. Before the arrival of the Normans, most dwellings were circular and were sited within a circular enclosure made from clay or stone. Most enclosures consisted of a single wall or rampart, but some had two and the wealthiest people had three. So, the easiest way to identify the dwelling of a noble is to count the number of circular embankments around the site.

Hi Shae,
how can we know that Tara was the place of inauguration of the kings of Leinster?
I mean,legends tell us that it was Aird Righ's residence,so from which sources did you learn it?
By the way,what did a king's inauguration consist of?

The various Annals, especially the Annals of the Four Masters, mention Tara as being the site of inauguration for the Leinster kings. As I mentioned, each province had its own inauguration site that was used solely for ceremonial or ritual purposes. Emain Macha, for example, was the equivalent site in Ulster. The king was inaugurated there but lived nearby at Ard Macha (Armagh). These sites weren't just used for inauguration, though. They were where the king and his legal advisors held court, and where the annual gatherings took place.

Yes, many legends say that the king lived at Tara but it's necessary to remember that quite a few, if not all, of the legends were written to honour and praise individual kings and his status was therefore raised as high as possible. Leinster nobles always regarded themselves as superior to the others, especially to Ulster, and vice versa. It was only natural, then, for the bards and story tellers to exhault *their* king above the others. Thus, the king of Leinster was always referred to as the Ard Rí even though he wasn't in reality.

As for inauguration rituals, we don't have much detail. We do know that part of the ritual involved an espousal or "marriage" between the king and the goddess of the Land. Certainly at Tara, and probably at other sites too, was a special flagstone upon which the king stood, barefoot, to symbolise his union with the Land. The stone at Tara was called the Lia Fáil and was supposed to shriek when the goddess approved the king. According to myth, it was brought to Ireland by the Tuatha De Danann and gave Ireland one of its names - Inish Fáil. The pillar stone currently at Tara could not be the Lia Fáil, even though that's what it's called. Another story about the Lia Fáil is that it was taken to Scotland where it became known as the Stone of Scone and was used at the inauguration of the Scottish kings. Scholars are of the opinion that this is unlikely and that the Lia Fáil was probably destroyed soon after the introduction of Christianity to Ireland.

One thing I forgot to mention. Giraldus Cambrensis visited Ireland in the late 12th century and he gives an account of a king's inauguration. Nobody is sure how reliable it is because he says he heard it from somebody else and it happened in Donegal (I think), which he didn't visit. Also, it's a bit gruesome and some are of the opinion that Giraldus' antagonism towards the Irish caused him to embellish a little. Anyway, for what it's worth, he says that a white mare was sacrificed before the king who then ritually mated with it. Afterwards, the mare was dismembered and boiled in a large vat. When the mix was cool enough, the king climbed stark naked into the vat and dispensed cups of soup to those in attendance.

Whether or not it's true, the ritual is quite similar to one that used be carried out in India and, since the Celts are Indo-European, I suppose it's plausible for Ireland too.

Well, you did ask ;)

Hiii Shae
becouse you probably know everything about everything,I want to ask you as many questions as possible:I read that charioteers wore typical clothes,but I know no more;can you help me?

Hah! I KNEW someone would recognise my enormous genius and talents eventually! You should also know that modesty and humility are my greatest virtues.

Chariots and charioteers are a bit of a problem. In the tales of the Ulster Cycle, people charge all over the place in chariots, while in the Fionn MacCumhaill stories, everybody walks and there is no mention of chariots. Chariots also appear on some of the High Crosses, and they are mentioned occasionally in some of the "Lives" of the early saints. The Brehon Laws specify that a particular grade of roadway had to be wide enough for two chariots to pass each other. The big problem is that they don't appear in the archaeological record, at least in Ireland. Some chariot burials have been found in Britain and France, but not many. Despite the fact that chariots were made from wood, which would have perished, it is strange that associated trappings are so scarce. Nevertheless, their frequent mention in the myths and so on indicates that they were fairly common.

Those that have survived show that most had four wheels and resembled a cart more than the typical two-wheeled chariot we usually think of. Their use in battle was for transport to the battle site only. The chariot was driven by a charioteer who was accompanied by a warrior. Once they got to the battle, the warrior threw a few spears and then dismounted and fought on foot. The charioteer drove the chariot to a safe distance and waited until the warrior was either victorious or dead. There's a strange funeral procession carved on the base of one of the High Crosses at Ahenny. It shows a decapitated body on a chariot being led by clerics and being followed by a person carrying the head.

As for the clothes they wore, I don't think anybody knows for sure. Some of the Classical writers noted that the Gaulish Celts went into battle naked, apart possibly from a neck ring and their weapons, so it's quite possible that those using chariots were also naked.

There's a famous Roman sculpture called "The Dying Gaul" that will give you an idea of how they looked.

http://www.und.edu/instruct/bfrieder/Graphics210/dyinggaul.jpg

Btw, the curved object under his leg is a battle trumpet. Apparently the sound of 40 or 50 of them being blown at the same time scared the bejapers out of the Romans.

what are you Shae: a professor,a mere keen or a computer?

Well, I don't earn enough money, so I can't be a professor, and I've a lousy memory, so I can't be a computer. I guess I must be a mere keen.

who can tell me what did they usually ate and drank in ancient Ireland?

I think I made a glaring blunder

The ancient Irish "economy" was based on cattle, so a good deal of the daily fare consisted of milk products such as cheese and curdled milk. As regards meat, the most common animal remains in kitchen middens was pig, but sheep, horses and even dogs were eaten. Communities living near the coast ate shellfish too. Around this time of the year (Samhain) surplus male cattle were slaughtered so that there would be enough forage for cows during the winter. Nuts, especially hazel, were collected and stored for use during the winter. Grain, mostly oats, was also grown to make bread and porridge. Spring (Imbolc) was a time of celebration because lambs had been born by then and ewe milk was available for consumption.

Drink normally consisted of milk and water, but the wealthy could afford ale and mead, and imported wine.

As for the glaring blunder, I didn't notice one, but I just discovered that I made one relating to chariots. I said earlier that Celtic chariots were mostly four-wheeled, but it seems that quite a few were two-wheeled.

They ate dogs?Are you sure?It sounds strange

I'm sure it appears in the myths. One of CúChulainn's "taboos" was that he shouldn't eat dog flesh, because his name means the Hound of Culainn. Another of his taboos was that he should not refuse an invitation to a meal. In his Death Tale, he passes three crones who are cooking dog and who invite him to share the meal. So, he's between a rock and a hard place. If he accepts the invitation, which he must, he will break his other taboo by eating dog. Eventually, he accepts the invitation and shares the meal with the crones. This led indirectly to his death because the hand he used to hold the dog flesh lost its strength and he couldn't defend himself properly in the ensuing fight.

I'm nearly certain there is archaeological evidence of butchered dog bones, indicating that dogs were prepared for cooking in real life too. I'll check over the weekend.

I should have added that the fact that eating dog flesh was one of CúChulain's taboos implies that it was commonplace among the rest of the community.

Okay, so I was wrong again. I'm starting to make a habit of this!

The Irish Annals record such abnormal behaviour during times of famine as cannibalism, eating dog flesh and selling children for food.

An excavation at Dún Ailinne, Co. Kildare showed that animal bones were present in the following proportions:

Cattle - 53.9%
Pig - 36.3%
Sheep/goat - 7.3%
Horse - 2.5%

Only three bones out of nearly 20,000 were of dog.

Refs:
Fergus Kelly, "Early Irish Farming," p. 355
Barry Raftery, "Pagan Celtic Ireland," p. 125

Well,now I'm old enough to know:how were the relations between the ancient Irish people and sex?
And don't be wrong this time,this is a too important topic!
(btw,I want to thank you for your helpfulness,Shae)

Shae,are you embarassed?

Moi? Non!

I'm just wondering how Guest #1 knows that *I* might be old enough to know about it ;) Or are they the same Guest?

Anyway, you may or may not be relieved to know that details of sexual activity are notably absent from the early Irish texts. This may be because everybody knew about them, so there was no need to record them, or because the texts were written by Christian scribes who omitted the details for fear of endangering their vow of chastity.

It might appear from the myths that the early Irish - women in particular - were quite promiscuous. Queen Maev of Connaught, for example, had several husbands. She abandoned each one when somebody of greater status came on the scene. She had no qualms about offering herself or her daughter to whichever of her warriors overcame CúChulainn. Another lady, Macha, simply appeared one day at a farmer's house and moved in as his wife. Conchobhur, the Ulster king, was conceived when his mother asked a passing druid what that particular day was good for. He replied that it was good for making a king. The lady looked around and, seeing no other man in the vicinity, grabbed the druid and dragged him to her chamber. Well, I don't actually know if he had to be dragged.

It wasn't only the women, though. Prior to CúChulainn's departure to Scotland for weapons training, he swore fidelity to Emer. After his arrival there, he had an affair which resulted in a son. Even after his return to Emer, he fell in love with Fand, a woman of the Sidhe, and had to be given a magic potion to enable him to forget her.

In real life, relationships between men and women varied, depending on the status of each. There are seven, I think, different types of relationships recognised in the Brehon Laws, but I'll have to check. They range from unions between men and women of equal status to those between two mentally deficient people. As far as I can remember, the latter wasn't regarded as a binding marriage. Whatever type of union, women almost always had less rights than their husbands. On the other hand, there were plenty of grounds for a woman to divorce her husband. As well as his wife, it was acceptable for a man to have one or more concubines.

Then there was the "trial marriage." At the festival of Lughnasa, a young man and woman could pair up and live together as husband and wife for a year and a day. If either was dissatisfied at the end of that time, he or she could walk away from the marriage. This is from folklore, though, and I don't know if it actually happened.

On a related topic, celibacy among the clergy wasn't rigorously enforced until about the 12th century. The Brehon Laws give details of the rights of married priests and bishops and, in quite a few monasteries, the position of Abbot was handed down from father to son.

I'll check on the different types of marriages but it might be a couple of days before I get back.

I'll be the same guest forever

I'll miss you,my bold Shae

Oooh! How could I resist that??

I'll have to do this in instalments.

These are the disabilities that prevented a man from making a valid marriage, or for invalidating a marital contract.

1. A barren man - a man who had shown from a previous marriage that he could not procreate.

2. An "unarmed" man - a man who was impotent.

3. A man in Holy Orders - a Christian priest. As I mentioned in another post, this was not strictly adhered to.

4. A churchman - a bishop. This could have been included with the previous category, but the lawyers loved mystical numbers and had to separate the bishop from the priest to make up the number 7.

5. A "rockman" - a man with no land.

6. A very fat man - too obese to perform the sexual act.

7. A claenán - a "perverted little wretch" who disclosed his woman's bed-secrets.

These are some of the grounds whereby a woman could divorce her husband:

1. When a husband circulated a false story about his wife.

2. When a husband satirised his wife.

3. When a woman has been struck a blow which blemishes her.

4. When a woman is repudiated for another.

5. When she is deprived of sexual imtercourse by her husband.

6. When a woman is given a charm or potion to induce her to sleep with her husband.

7. When a woman is not given what she desires in food and suchlike.

The following types of "unions" were recognised by Brehon laws. Unlike many of our present-day laws, the Brehon laws recognised that there were different types of union between people and legislated for the property rights involved, and so on. Most importantly, any children born as a result of any of these unions was recognised by law and had rights. The concept of illegitimacy didn't exist.

1. A union of equal rank, where the man and woman were of equal rank and property.

2. A woman supported on a man's property - where the partners were of different classes of society.

3. A man supported on a woman's property. The laws stipulated that the man had to work the woman's property. He could not just be a "kept" man.

4. A woman received in the place of a wife - a concubine.

5. A man who kept company with another woman but did not live with her, and neither was wholly supported by the other.

6. The abducted woman.

7. The wandering soldier and his woman.

8. Union of deception where, for example, the man might have had sex with the woman while she was asleep.

9. Forced union, ie, rape.

10. The union of "levity," explained as a sexual partnership between lunatics.

this is very interesting, Shae...I'll just watch a while...thanks

Well, I've nothing more to add to this thread, Tex.

i dont know much about the ancients, seems they were a lot like modern people

Chi si rivede,il vecchio Shae!
How did they play fidchell?I mean,what were fidchell's rules?

Fidchell is also, apparently, known as Gwyddbwyll in Welsh. Notice the way the Irish stole all the vowels from the Welsh. I had always thought the game was something like chess, but that the rules had been lost. I don't know how authentic they are, but you can find the rules for fidchell and loads of other games at http://moas.atlantia.sca.org/topics/game.htm

*peeks in to see if she would understand anything that is going on here* .... hmmm, I guess not.

*waves hello, anyway*

i've always heard that Rome never really conquired all of Ireland. they were too afraid to,because of the women in the armies were better fighters than the men.

Rome didn't conquer any part of Ireland. Apart from commerce, Roman influence on Ireland was minimal. With due respect for the fighting abilities of Irish women, the main reason the Romans didn't invade Ireland was that they were too preoccupied with holding on to the lands they had already conquered.

It can be difficult getting an objective analysis of Irish history.
The Catholic Church relegated it to fantasy years ago.
In fact at school, priests actually told us that Ireland didn't have much real history!

I wonder what happened to it all.
Maybe Saint Patrick banished it with the snakes.

Now, the snake thing is true apparently.
If you don't believe you will burn in hell.
It’s the law.

St Patrick went to the Devil's Glen
To sleep in Ériu's bed, in her den
'Twas to neutralize the thing
(At least that's what the monks sing)
Methinks he might have went to sin

He proceeded to each of her beds to sleep
No matter how high, nor how steep
If ya ask me I think it sad
For her he seemed to 'ave it bad
Why else would he go into her cavern so deep

Why else would he go into her cavern so deep,
if the last thing on his mind was sleep.

If I'd turned the phrase about so deep
some would think me a creep
Some may come and some may go
The meaning herein some should know

Oracle
In a coracle,
A boat,
albeit historical.

A reference to anything physical
Causes a bout of the quizzical

Bordering on puritanical!
A chat site,
correct/political?

*Shakes head vigorously and runs from the room*

Hey
What types of weapons were used in Ireland around 1200-1300? Is there such a sword as the "Irish Drake"? Do you know of where I could see a pic. of the weapons used.

Hey
Something I forgot to ask. Where can I find I historical map of Ireland or even a moderen topographical map that shows the intire country would work.
Thanks man!

Swords and spears were commonly used, and the Irish had a great fondness for the axe, a habit they picked up from the Vikings. I haven't heard of the "Irish Drake" but that doesn't mean there isn't such a thing.

The following site has a great collection of maps that shows territorial areas through the centuries.

http://www.fortunecity.com/bally/kilkenny/2/iremaps.htm

Hey
Thanks for the info on the weapons and the maps.
I've been to that site before, but what I'm looking for is a map that shows the mountains, rivers and even valleys, with milege. I've tried quite a few searches and the only thing they come up with is the site you gave me. So if you know of where I could get that it'd be great.
Thanks a lot!

Dunno where you are, Centauri, but most decent bookshops should be able to get a map that meets your requirements. Failing that, you might find something at http://www.osi.ie/

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/europe/ireland.jpg

http://www.fortunecity.com/bally/kilkenny/2/mapmtn.htm

Are these any good?

Failing that! as Shae said, you could always buy one.
If you are reluctant to pay for it, you could always brush up on your shoplifting skills.

Hey!
Thanks for the sites I'll check them out. Yes, it's true I'm cheap, be that as it may, I'd really rather stay away from jail.
Thanks guys!

i need a map of the world of greeks please..